Yes, 50 images is a lot, but not so uncommon here in the UK.

A couple of fashion photographer friends have 60 image / 30 page books. Thereagain, they're presenting whole stories (maybe 8 stories in total), whereas most of my portraits are self-contained commissions. Hmmm, my final edit might be closer to 40 images.

Brooks, the bone scorer tool... is it simple to use? do you just drag it along the edge of a ruler? do you score both sides of the paper?

Thanks

Ellliot

Well, I picked up a bone scorer yesterday and it's very easy to use. It does a much better job than any of the blunt kitchen utensils that I had tried previously!

I have also found a UK supplier of something similar to Shapp's Fiskars cutter/scorer. I might give that a go as the workflow will be a bit smoother than using the bone scorer with a ruler.

I was looking at a friend's (sleeved) House of Portfolios book last night (4 post design, similar, I think, to what Brooks and Shapps are using), and I got to wondering about this 1" margin.

The post area (i.e. the posts and the strip of board/fabric that covers them) is about half an inch deep. So with a paper size of 12" x 14" the viewable area is going to be about 11.5" x 14". But half an inch from the binding (i.e. half an inch into the image) there's going to be a score line. Is that right?

I'm concerned that with repeated page turning that score line is going to get flakey, exposing bits of paper white beneath the image.

I'm thinking that it might be easier to forgo double page spreads and full bleed images altogether, and instead print everything with a one inch white border. That way the score line does not interfere with the images. (But of course, it's a different aesthetic.)

Cheers

Elliot

Elliot - welcome to the nightmare of double sided books - its taken me almost 1.5 years to get where I am just about happy with the process of the constant changing and experimenting of new and different papers, buying new printers, new covers, all sorts of hinge materiels etc etc - you are lucky that you have fools like myself and Brooks paving the way and blowing our money to figure out what works and what doesn't.

Hi

I've decided to buy the cheapest post-bound portfolio I can find, so I can give this whole double-sided sleeveless thing a trial run. Something like this:

http://www.portfoliosplus.co.uk/detail.aspx?productid=538894

If I like the effect I'll then spend hundreds on a nice nubuk portfolio with my name on the front.

For hole punching I'm looking at a screw punch. It only does one hole at a time, but will cleanly go through a thick stack of paper.

(I just bought a heavy duty 4-hole adjustable punch on eBay, but it doesn't seem very precise, so I'm sending it back.)

Cheers

Elliot

Thanks again for all the great insights here. Some comments on what I have found, and some questions from those with a broader range of experiences:

I've been toying with switching from Epson Premium Luster to Hahnemuhle Photo Rag, but it would introduce some complications for me -- the biggest being the switching to matt black ink cartridge from photo black on the Epson 4800. The Photo Rag is so much more expensive, I couldn't use it for everyday purposes but I'd be stuck with the matt black cartridge in there ($60 ink loss cost to switch blacks). But if the Photo Rag makes a meaningfully better portfolio presentation, it may be worth it.

Any thoughts on comparing Photo Rag and Epson Premium Luster? The Luster paper does get scuffed up even with four coats of protective spray, but I also hear that the fine art paper surfaces like Photo Rag are fragile and also vulnerable to scuffing. Double sided is not an issue for me, I need the flexibility to add and remove frequently.

Tried scoring with a bone tool on Epson Premium Luster and it does absolutely nothing to help the page lie flat. I assume it is more helpful with Photo Rag since you guys have had so much success scoring. (maybe Photo Rag is thicker?) Perforating does the trick, but I wonder how long the pages will last before ripping out.

Shapps, as for the hole punch, great suggestion. I ordered it, but the widest you can have the two furthest holes in 10.5 inches so it is not useable for a 14 inch tall page. Anyone know of a wider adjustable hole punch?

Thanks!

Dan - My books are 14" tall - and I use that 4 hole punch I linked above. What I actually so is only have the 3 punches in place and after punching the pages I pull out two of the punches and then flip the page and punch the remaining hole - I have found nothing else that works as well.

I have been using a 2200 for 3 years for all my books and last month purchased a 4800 along with Image Print RIp and teh PHATTE black cartrage. I haven't yet installed the IP because I am really liking the results I am getting so far on both Ilford Smooth Pearl and Brilliant 17" roll. I haven't yet used the PhotoRag becasue of the inkset. I really need to install IP and just be done with it - but for once in a long long time the Epson driver is working so damn well - albiet only with the Photo Black cart.

there is a different look associated with the PhotoRag paper then there is with and Lustre surface - it really bothered me at first and took me a long while to get used to it - but I am happy with it now I guess - don't have much choice when it comes to double sided papers.

I used the perforated blade on that 24" Fiskars cutter that I have, the same one that I swap the blade out with a scoring blade - the perforating worked for a little while but then they just became weak and fell apart - I was trying everything to keep them together, all sorts of tapes behind it before running the perf and it helped but it too just tore off.

Shapps, I'm going through some of the same things and was using hinging tape and punching holes in that, which worked but was tedious. Does the trimmer you're using come with the "scorer" tool, or would that need to by added as an accessory blade. I"m thinking of buying one. Also, is it accurate for cutting your pages down to size with consistentcy. Thanks.

david - I actually use an X-acto and straight edge to trim my prints - I have a Kodak branded Rototrim that Calumet sells for cheaper then teh Roto's buty I find it very difficult to accurately trim things with it.

The Fiskars trimmer - It comes with just the cutting blade and teh scoring blade and the perforated blade are sold seperate - their like $3.99 or something.

It must be incredibly hard to trim all the pages exactly alike. Maybe you could take the pages to a binder and have them chop them all at once. Of course, then you wouldn't get the satisfaction of doing the whole project yourself. I wonder if the pages could be clamped and then sanded on the edges till they match? I've never done any of this. Just throwing out a few ideas. This thread has peaked my interest in making my own book.

When I was using the 1" tape hinges, I had begun using 11x14 paper, printing full bleed, so that took away the problem of inaccurately alligned pages from having to make 4 roto-trim cuts, which is what I was doing with 13x19 paper. So the scoring the same page thing offers both a solution and a new problem, and I haven't figured out which way to go, yet. Thanks for the info.

Actually - the only time my pages dont all line up is when I tried to use a rototrim for the cuts - its just not a good tool for this. Since I am printing double sided on 13x19 paper - I have it selected to Center Print which on the 2200 worked ok but the paper slips and must basically be forced into the printer - on the 4800 it lines things up automatically. So I only print corner guides on one side of the page - much of my book is very light and blown out backgrounds so I print the corner guides on teh non blown out side - I have stragtegically placed my images so there is usually a blown out on the back of every (or front) of each full bleed image - this allows for printer line up error.

I then used a new Exacto blade and a metal straight edge and place the straight edge at the outer edge of teh corner marks all the way around - and it all lines up perfectly in the end.

I use a RotaTrim Mastercut II to cut my pages. The trick is to do every page in the same order. I lay out the stack of images and run them all through cutting the same side on all of them, then take the whole stack and do the next side that needs to be cut.

I also have the base board of the trimmer setup with semi permanent blocks at the two lengths to push the paper against when cutting(10 and 11 inches). The closer block, for the 10 inch dimension, is lower then the 11 inch, so that when I do the longer cut, the paper goes over it and rest against the 11 inch block.

Does that make sense? :-)

As for scoring, I haven't had to do any other than my initial tests, because these portfolios are brand new and I haven't had to replace any pages yet.

When I asked around about how best to do it, I also had concerns about the pages opening flat, but everyone said it's not as important that they stay flat when open as it is that the book doesn't feel stiff and want to close when you let go of the pages. The scoring just helps the pages turn better, I don't think they have to lay perfectly flat when open. People aren't brushing their teeth when they look at your book, they generally have both hands on it. I guess I'll eat those words the first time I find toothpaste stains on my portfolio. :-)

I'm supposed to get one of my books any minute now. I'll try to shoot a picture of it when it gets here to post.

Here's another option. I think it's new. The Hahnemuhle Album:

http://www.hahnemuehle.com/index.php?mid=404&lng=en&pkat=341

Sold in the UK here (scroll down - different sizes/colours to those on the Hahnemuhle website):

http://www.on-linepaper.co.uk/acatalog/on_line_p_per_co..._Art_Papers_137.html

Seems very good value, so I've ordered one to give it a try. Not the right dimensions for my main book, but will suit one of my personal projects. Apparently Hahnemuhle will post Epson 2400 profiles shortly.

Elliot

Well, my new books have arrived.


Click HERE for more pictures and BIGGER.

The color was a little tricky to show in the pictures, but the covers are a dark burgundy ultra suede with black leather and the inside is black crepe book cloth. The back has a pocket for promos and a small pocket to hold about three business cards.

Thanks to Eriko Yahiro for making my beautiful new portfolios!

Brooks--

They look great! It looks like she did a wonderful job. You made the right choice with the color and texture too.

Can't wait to hear how clients react!
-Leslie