As the trend grows to go sleeveless/double sided, I have been thinking of doing this for a portfolio. But designer, just mentioned while this does look great, thin plastic sleeves can look almost as good and save you a lot of grief/time. ie, in that going double sided, sleeveless requires more upkeep and printing -- is it worth it? thanks.

the double sided thing is a serious pain in the ass - I have been dealing with this issue over and over again for the past year. For starters its VERY limiting as far as double sided papers go. I started out by spraymounting two printed pieces back to back with what ever paper I wanted but that just became so tedious afetr a while since I have 5 books to do. The worst part about all of this double sided thing is also the consideration that goes into a hinge system. I have spent and wasted a friggn ton of money over the past year in all sorts of different papers and all sorts of different hinge ideas and all sorts of different scoring ideas and all sorts of different covers and way to many 2200 ink carts.

I am currently now printing my books on the hahnemuhle Photo Rag Duo 316 13x19 paper - my images for my books are 11x14 and I have added in to make them 12x14 - the added in part is so the printing will go all the way into the gutter with a channel scored hinge where the actual 11" area is at. So I am actually using the paper as a hinge this time.

If you plan on doing double sided for your books - just think it all out over and over again as to which images you want facing each other and which you want to appear on the next page. Think exactly about how you want to create your hinge system.

I think that the hardest part about about printing on this hahnemuhle paper is that the printer must be nursed every time because it just will not grab the paper you must futze with it to get it to go in - and then hope and pray that it will line up with the image on the other side for when you need to trim things out.

I'm not interested in trading convenience and time for quality, so my new books are being made as we speak with the same paper choice Greg mentioned above. I'm also scoring and punching the pages, but my books are a bit smaller. As far as determining the spreads, I had a lot of help with that, and her name is Leslie. :-)

The consensus, I'm getting is it does seem to be worth it.

I was recommended Premier Art double sided.

thanks Shapps... I'm with Brooks, hire people to ease the pain:
designers, book makers, consultants like Leslie....

The real issue for me is the ability to add new images and remove other at whim - Brooks - by having someone making your books are you going to have this ability to add and subtract??

This was part of my decision to score and punch the pages. I felt it would be harder if the pages were guarded (cloth hinged for those wondering). Eriko Yahiro is making my books and giving me a template to follow for the scoring and hole punching. I did some tests and found that on full bleed images, the scored part of the pages didn't look as good after many page turns (folds) of the scoring, but since my book only has a few full bleed images, I felt the trade off of being able to replace pages myself was worth it.

how are you doing your scoring? I am having mine done on a Letter Press machine - a channel score.

Well, I'm using a bone folder or bone scoring tool. I would be open to learning a better method if there is one though.

I've been meaning to try scoring pages with a bone tool -- any advice on what to look for in a bone tool? Not even sure what distinguishes one from another.

And to punch the holes, are you just using a normal hole punch from an office supply store, or is there a special book-making tool for this?

Thanks.

Brooks - great blog, I peak in to check things out once in a while.

Dan - I have been using a kickass 4 hole adjustable heavy duty hole-punch from Swingline - I chose it becasue every time I purchase new or additional covers for my books they seems to move the posts around - so the fact that this punch is really adjustable makes my life so simple.

4 hole punch

Hi, first post...

Very interesting discussion - thanks especially to Shapps for providing such a detailed account of making a sleeveless portfolio. I'm about to make my first (11"x14").

My portfolio maker has given me the same recommendations as Shapps - Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Duo 316g, with a 1 inch margin to accomodate the posts. I'm having the posts spaced to match the A4 4-hole punches that are common here in Europe (i.e. 8cm between posts).

The one area I am not clear on is scoring.

I have some sample sheets of Photo Rag Duo which I've just tried to score using the tip of an old screwdriver (dragged along a ruler). Well.... the paper now folds nicely, but the tip of the screwdriver has made quite a mess, tearing through the surface of the paper, and pulling up lots of small paper fibres.

I had to Google 'bone scorer' to find out what one is. I can see that it might be gentler than a rusty old screwdriver! Any tips, Brooks, on how to use one? Do you score both sides of the paper? Do you use a ruler as a guide?

I see on UK eBay you can buy a bone scorer with an accompanying base board that has various grooves cut into to it to aid scoring. That might be useful for thin paper, but would an underlying groove be at all helpful for a thick paper like Photo Rag?

Shapps, you mention a 'letter press machine' and a 'channel score' - what does that mean? Is that a DIY solution, or is that something a bookbinder does for you?

Also, is it best to score before printing or after?

If printing full bleed and/or double page spreads, is it best to run the image some way (or all the way) into that 1" margin.

Thanks for any tips.

(Trying to avoid an expensive cock-up!)

Elliot

Elliot - welcome to the PDN forum.

Well, my channel scoring is no longer happening for a few reasons - it is not a very good thing when your dealing with inkjet prints as they have been getting scuffed from the letter press. and its not a great idea to bug a printer for scoring every time I want to add in a new page to the books.

So I have now switched to doing the scoring myself and its working out excellent. I happen to have this - web page that has a scoring blade that can be swapped out with the cutting blade. I tape down a straight edge at the 11" area on the Fiskars and when I insert my paper and line the edge up with teh straight edge its ready to be scored - I run it thru on the front side then flop it and do it again on the back side. The pages are holding up great and the hinges are working better then anything I have tried before.

quote:

Also, is it best to score before printing or after?

If printing full bleed and/or double page spreads, is it best to run the image some way (or all the way) into that 1" margin.

the second to last step for me is the scoring - the very last step is the hole punching.

I run my ink all the way to the 12" mark - actually, let me rephrase that - my images are all 11x14, but I extend either the background or kinda stretch a edge selection out to the 12" mark - I do not alter my image size in anyway. I will clone or healing brush the heck out of that 11-12" area to make it all blend while making sure my image remains untouched within its 11x14 crop.

Hi Shapps

Thanks for your feedback.

Re. scoring. I think I'll pick up a bone scorer and give that a try. Your Fiskars trimmer looks ideal, but the only thing similar I can find in the UK is the Rotatrim Edgemaster system, and that is only A4.

Re. printing into the 1" margin. I shoot tight (environmental portraits), so few of my images have an extra 1" to flow into the margin. I'll have to experiment. Maybe leave it white, or fill with black, or possibly do as you do and sort of smudge the image colours into the gutter.

How many images do you have in your book? I currently have 34 in my conventional sleeved portfolio, but I'm hoping to have more in my new sleeveless portfolio. Probably around 50 images, so 25 sheets of double-sided paper.

Do you think having that many pages will cause problems with page turning and the pages lying reasonably flat?

Also, have you ever experimented with the thinner Duo Photo Rag (196g)? Perhaps that would be more suitable if I want so many pages?

Thanks

Elliot

Wow. Sorry I missed all of this... What Greg said. :-)

50 images is a lot for a print book.

I have 14 pages (pieces of paper) with 30 images, but a couple of the pages have multiple images on them. One page has four that support the full bleed image next to them.

The first and last pages have my logo and contact info, so all pages are setup as spreads.

I only have a few full bleeds and most of them have sufficient image on the gutter side to fill the sheet beyond the holes. I do have one that is a closeup of a mans face and I had to do a little cloning per Greg's suggestion to add to the side of the image. My new books are in the mail on their way to me right now, so I'll post a picture of the finished portfolio when it gets here.

Greg, do you want to show us your book? No pressure. :-)